IBT organizing at UAL

[iamtech]

The Teamsters have started a card drive at United Air Lines and rumor has it that cards and teamster pins are going like hotcakes. Witness the end of AMFA.
clap:

[andy]

Wow, that sure is a blow to AMFA. How many members do they have at United?

AMFA really screwed the pooch out at NWA. There's rarely anyone even picketing anymore and AMFA was powerless to stop the flow of scabs. It's a real mess.

AMFA just had no power here.

[markovol]

Couldn't happen to a nicer union. cheeky4:

[The Pirate]

how does a shop go about fring one union and bringing in another to represent them?(serious question)angryf: cuss: huh4: burnout:

[markovol]

I think this is it.

By passing out cards and getting 51% of the people to return the cards asking for a new union. Then a vote must happen and again a 51% yes vote is needed.

Happens all the time.

[guest]

not quite that simple.

The current contract must be expired (because your under contract).

A certain time must elapse after expiration.

Vote the union out.

Then vote a new union in.

I think.

[andy]

If your shop is AFL-CIO now there can be a problem... I think.

I'm not any sort of union rep but I believe there is kind of a "no raiding" pact among unions who are both AFL-CIO. And the last thing that you would want to do is vote in some lone wolf union like AMFA was. There's no power there and their members paid a hard price for that.

Can anyone else offer some insight on this matter? Would they actually have to vote out the old union and then vote in another one? I thought an existing shop would have to hold a de-certification election and then vote in a new union. The transition time really leaves you open for damage though, as there's no protection.

You folks are TWU now right? It's best to be in one that has a huge membership. Who were you thinking about asking?

It's a different story for the folks at UAL. They are voting out AMFA which is not in the federation.

[dalsimtech]

not quite that simple. The current contract must be expired (because your under contract). A certain time must elapse after expiration. Vote the union out. Then vote a new union in. I think.

Actually, the contract doesn't have to be expired. The new union, if one is elected, would simply have to wait until the contract expires to begin negotiating a new one. In other words, they would inherit the contract terms from the old union. It is a bit like a sports athlete signing a five year deal, then firing his agent and hiring a new one. The contract he signed with the old agent doesn't suddenly become null and void, nor did he have to wait to replace his agent until his contract expired.

You can basically collect cards at any time you wish. The only time this doesn't apply is when the union you have has been installed under two years (I believe). Then you have to wait. The National Mediation Board gives a new union some time to negotiate before allowing you to switch out again.

As far as the number of cards needed, over 50% must sign authorization cards. So technically, some will say "50% + 1 additional card", which is different than "51%". Of course, this differs from the 35% mark needed if the workforce isn't already unionized.

By the way, you can go to www.nmb.gov and check out the National Mediation Board web site. They have a copy of the Railway Labor Act, under which all airlines fall, and a list of cases pending and decided. Pretty cool if you are into that kind of thing. eureka:

[Doctor Clutch]

What Dalsimtech said sounds familiar from when we changed representation. There?s a hitch to the process though. As I remember it, if the combined vote count of the competing unions isn?t greater than 50% of the eligible voters, than the contract is nullified and the group is without representation. If I were unhappy with my present representation I would shop around and ask the more reputable unions to explain exactly how it works. They will be more than happy to answer all your questions.

[dalsimtech]

You are exactly right. Any time there is an election, no matter whether there is already a union or not, over 50% of the have to vote for some union. If not, the group loses all representation! That is what happened to Delta's ground instructors.

With the DAL ground instructors, they had elected TWU and were going for their first contract. The company and TWU had been going at it for years and the members were beginning to grow weary and irritable. When they finally did sign a contract, it was a really lame one. It was obvious that TWU was just wanting something signed so they could begin collecting dues. (A newly elected union doesn't begin collecting dues until the first contract is signed.)

After the contract, one instructor named Joe Hatfield went around collecting representation cards for himself. This is allowed under RLA rules. His intention was pretty obvious. He never intended to really represent them, but rather to get an election so they could dump their union. When the election rolled around, nobody mailed in their ballots, the equivalent of a "no" vote. The result was that less than 50% voted for any union and they lost all representation. Ironically, the company gave them a raise right afterward, an obvious reward. Even more ironic, the company now has farmed them all out, which was exactly the reason they went union in the first place!

Check out the actual National Mediation Board (NMB) election results for Joe Hatfield versus TWU at this NMB link: http://www.nmb.gov/representation/deter2002/29n080.html.

[Doctor Clutch]

You are exactly right. Any time there is an election, no matter whether there is already a union or not, over 50% of the have to vote for some union. If not, the group loses all representation! That is what happened to Delta's ground instructors.

Thanks for verifing that.

(A newly elected union doesn't begin collecting dues until the first contract is signed.)

That is the way it is supposed to work. I read the following post on AMFAnut.com. I have not verified the accuracy of it. Not all unions are the same and it pays to choose carefully!!!

Name: ATA MECHANIC
Email:
Employer:
Station:
Date: Monday March 13, 2006
Time: 12:11:20 PM
Comments
Thought you guys might want to hear the latest amfa follies at ATA. amfa just ta'd our first agreement and has mailed ballots for a vote. We were asked to pay dues and help with expenses as we have been waiting 4 years for an agreement. Dues were strictly voluntary though and the local IAM were called liars when literature was mailed to us claiming other workers didn't pay the IAM any dues before a first agreement. Now after being notified of voting for the TA we were also notified that any ATA mechanic not paid up in full would not be eligible to vote on this agreement!!!!!! The agreement will force us to join amfa but we don't get to vote????? This is a slap in the face to us all at ATA, these amfa guys are as bad as they come for deception and lies.

[dalsimtech]

Well, any union can ask for voluntary dues. They have no contractual obligation to make anyone pay anything. However, a union with no money can't go through too much wrangling and fighting in the first two or three years without some income. Either it funnels money from its other locals to fund itself during this time period, or it can ask for voluntary dues. Another option is to ask the NMB to decertify the union as the representative of the group in question. Scanning through some of the NMB cases, I've noticed that the Teamsters have simply dumped some of the smaller groups that have voted them in by doing this. huh4:

[Doctor Clutch]

I wouldn?t call ?not being allowed to vote now because you didn?t pay before? VOLUNTARY. The dues collected after the contract is ratified make up the cost of getting that first contract. It?s part of the cost of doing business. If ATA MECHANIC has his facts correct, than AMFA has been lying to them from the beginning and now they are getting a royal screwing.

The Pirate asked how to change unions. I think an important part of the process is to make sure you are changing to a BETTER union.

Pirate,
Before you jump ship? make sure your next boat floats!!!!

[The Pirate]

gettin rumors they might close our local!!!!!