New Poll? Best or worst shop

[andy]

I remember trying this on the old board, and it created quite an argument. So being a typical sim tech I felt that I needed to poke the hornet nest just one more time.

I want to create a poll for rating the shops. What I need to know is should I label it for rating the best shop or the worst shop to work for?

I also would like some input on what actual shops to list.

Off the top of my head I can pick the following:

American
USAir
Delta
CAL
NWA
Southwest
AmericaWest
PanAm
CAE
FedEx
UPS
FlightSafety
Airbus

Let me know if I missed anybody. Any comments welcome.

[dirtydozen]

I remember trying this on the old board, and it created quite an argument. So being a typical sim tech I felt that I needed to poke the hornet nest just one more time.

I want to create a poll for rating the shops. What I need to know is should I label it for rating the best shop or the worst shop to work for?

I also would like some input on what actual shops to list.

Off the top of my head I can pick the following:

American
USAir
Delta
CAL
NWA
Southwest
AmericaWest
PanAm
CAE
FedEx
UPS
FlightSafety
Airbus

Let me know if I missed anybody. Any comments welcome.


very hard but I would say everyone knows, in thier minds eye what = 10

[Egyptian]

You could add CSC, it is the best one I have worked for in 30 years in this business.

[guest]

There's also L3 Communication who run military shops. And Puleau (I hope I spelled it right). It might be hard for some folks to compare their shop with others if they haven't worked in different shops. The best they could do is rate their own shop on a scale of 1-10 I suppose.

I've seen PanAm and it looks a mess. About 4 or 5 on a scale. Old junk mostly.
Some CAE shops (commercial) may have a low rating due to inexperienced management. But the shops are clean since they are new.

I have a friend at FSI and he says that for the most part it's not a bad place to work.

CAE Simuflite is a madhouse but the management has lots of experience and they treat the employees fairly. Mostly you get what you need.

DirtyDozen, that's a pretty sick avatar you got there. Blue gas? :faintt:

[Pioneer]

Could you add Alteon to your pole? :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared:

[guest]

Could you add Alteon to your pole? :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared:

Sure! Does anyone else have any shop they want to see added?

[guest]

Boeing has a number of shops

[Egyptian]

There is also Thales. I don't think they are doing contract sim maint anymore, but they are still big in sim mods and updates.

[guest]

Please add Aeroservice to your list. Rating(1-10)=3

[guest]

Somebody has put up a scientific poll!!!!!:)

http://www.misterpoll.com/1350289698.html
Best Sim Shop

[phazeshifter]

I've only worked for CAE, but in two different shops. The second one is definitely better than the first. On a scale of 1 - 10, I'd give it an 8. Like I said, I personally don't have anything to compare it to though.

[dustymars]

Retirement
American
USAir
Delta
CAL
NWA
Southwest
AmericaWest
PanAm
CAE
FedEx
UPS
FlightSafety
Airbus

[BansheeBill]

I've worked in only one shop for the last 20 years. Unfortunately it's gone from a 10 down to a 3 ...

[andy]

Somebody has put up a scientific poll!!!!!

http://www.misterpoll.com/1350289698.html
Best Sim Shop

I did give it some thought on starting this thread as the "Best Shop" or the "Worst Shop". I chose the 2nd one not because of being pessimistic, but I thought it would bear a more realistic impression. How can someone really vote for the best shop unless they are just plain ecstatic about where they work. Most techs have been through several jobs, and usually left the prior jobs because they sucked.

Hmmm - it looks like the software only allows me a maximum of 10 choices, so I'll have to split it up to 2... one for airlines & one for training centers. I'll make the poll voting anonymous, and users have the ability to choose multiple answers.

[guest]

This thread is some interesting reading.
But it causes me to ask, How can we as sim techs rate our sim shops? We don't get to see them all. It is as someone said our own minds eye view.
To me what would be more intersting and could possibly help us all is to hear exactly what is good and what is bad about your shop. In some cases, why did your rating go from a 10 to a 3 in 20 years? What happened? What could have stopped the decline? In my opinion, this sort of information would be better than simply stating, "My shop sucks". Or "This is the best shop ever!"

[andy]

Yea I know - It's kind of hard to create a poll of this nature as there is no real way to truly answer this type of question without actually experiencing each shop's environment.

BUT - pretty much every tech on here has worked at several shops, and many have friends throughout the simulator industry, and I'm sure there's a degree of "shop talk". I'm also banking on the degree of averages here... If the average tech is on his 3rd company in their career, and if a company can't hold on to their employees, then the poll should reflect this in the results.

So that's why I structured the poll for the worst place. We can't guess what the best shop is, but if a majority of people worked at a shop that sucked, then I'm banking on the poll reflecting this. If one particular company stands out, then there is a problem at that company that should be addressed.

Or I could be doing this just for fun.... you know how us sim techs are.

:screwy:

[andy]

Retirement
American
USAir
Delta
CAL
NWA
Southwest
AmericaWest
PanAm
CAE
FedEx
UPS
FlightSafety
Airbus


mmmmm.... retirement.

[Egyptian]

Andy, you didn't put up a poll for the military guys. Quite a few different companies in that business

[andy]

Can you post a full list? I'll get one up asap.

The one thing that sucks about this polling software is that I am limited to 10 answers a person can choose from. This is why I had to break up the polls into so many smaller ones.

[Ttiny]

http://www.misterpoll.com/1350289698.html
Can not trust this poll because you can vote more than once. :clap:

[Pansy Bedwetter]

http://www.misterpoll.com/1350289698.html
Can not trust this poll because you can vote more than once. :clap:

hmmm. How'd you figure that out? :clap:

[Ttiny]

:att: First see who is near the top.
Second see who is near the top.
Third see who is near the top.
forth see if I can vote again. :faintt:

[6DOF]

..

[Pansy Bedwetter]

Here's some unsolicited advice from an old man. Feel free to ignore it.

Ronald Reagan was very fond of saying that people will "vote with their feet". If you aren't happy where you are, then you probably aren't doing right by yourself or your employer. Maybe you should consider casting a vote to help yourself and your present company ( and your fellow workers who listen to your complaining all the time ). Why not tell the boss you are giving your 2 weeks notice? Be sure to shake everyone's hand and wish them the best, you never know who you might interview with in the future! Concentrate on what's best for you. And if you find yourself with enough time to criticize other sim shops, have fun, 'cause everyone likes to have their choice of workplace dragged through the mud! (sarcasm) Just be sure to tell us all about it when you find the perfect place to work. (more sarcasm)
Like just about everything in life, you get out what you put in. If you ain't getting much out of your present situation, especially if others around you are happier than you, then maybe your location isn't the source of the problem. (that's from personal experience)
When I left Eastern by joining the strike, I made less than 20% of my 1988 wages in 1989. I lost 20 pounds, down to 140, and took a construction job when the picket lines came down making 10 dollars an hour. And I was happier than I had been in years. Go figure!
Life is short. I sincerely hope you find more satisfaction in your work real soon. All the Best to you and yours.

[guest]

Here's some unsolicited advice from an old man. Feel free to ignore it.

Ronald Reagan was very fond of saying that people will "vote with their feet". If you aren't happy where you are, then you probably aren't doing right by yourself or your employer. Maybe you should consider casting a vote to help yourself and your present company ( and your fellow workers who listen to your complaining all the time ). Why not tell the boss you are giving your 2 weeks notice? Be sure to shake everyone's hand and wish them the best, you never know who you might interview with in the future! Concentrate on what's best for you. And if you find yourself with enough time to criticize other sim shops, have fun, 'cause everyone likes to have their choice of workplace dragged through the mud! (sarcasm) Just be sure to tell us all about it when you find the perfect place to work. (more sarcasm)
Like just about everything in life, you get out what you put in. If you ain't getting much out of your present situation, especially if others around you are happier than you, then maybe your location isn't the source of the problem. (that's from personal experience)
When I left Eastern by joining the strike, I made less than 20% of my 1988 wages in 1989. I lost 20 pounds, down to 140, and took a construction job when the picket lines came down making 10 dollars an hour. And I was happier than I had been in years. Go figure!
Life is short. I sincerely hope you find more satisfaction in your work real soon. All the Best to you and yours.

Just goes to prove that advice, even bad advice, is like an asshole. Everyone's got one.

Don't be so quick to assume that dissatisfaction with a given job is a wholly individual experience. More often than not, it's a collective one, because years of good management-labor relations can be destroyed within weeks by appointing just the right dickhead(s) to run a department. Been there, seen it, f_cked it.

Nor is it ever that easy to walk away from a job and people you've given of yourself to over a period of years. It's more than just a question money, but involves years shared experiences. Even those we do not necessarily care for become family in their own wierd way.

[Pansy Bedwetter]

It was plainly labelled as free to ignore. :)

[guest]

From sim tech to construction worker to psycho-therapist...

My, what career arc! :biggrin:

[guest]

6DOF,
If you are going to eat your shorts, at least make sure they are boxers instead of tighty-whiteys. Boxers are less likely to have that racing stripe down the middle.:mad:

[6DOF]

..

[Fast Eddie]

Just goes to prove that advice, even bad advice, is like an asshole. Everyone's got one.

Don't be so quick to assume that dissatisfaction with a given job is a wholly individual experience. More often than not, it's a collective one, because years of good management-labor relations can be destroyed within weeks by appointing just the right dickhead(s) to run a department. Been there, seen it, f_cked it.

Nor is it ever that easy to walk away from a job and people you've given of yourself to over a period of years. It's more than just a question money, but involves years shared experiences. Even those we do not necessarily care for become family in their own wierd way.

I thought Bedwetter was right on target. I'm sure our Guest is sitting in a chair complaining about management right now. You know this person well. They hide on Swing shift so management won't see them. They live for stirring up shit. :cuss: Get out of your chair and earn your keep. You don't deserve a pay raise just because you have a pulse. :kabong: Rant over!

[guest]

I thought Bedwetter was right on target. I'm sure our Guest is sitting in a chair complaining about management right now. You know this person well. They hide on Swing shift so management won't see them. They live for stirring up shit. :cuss: Get out of your chair and earn your keep. You don't deserve a pay raise just because you have a pulse. :kabong: Rant over!

Your rant reminds me of the joke I once heard about a blind man who bumps into an elephant, feels its leg, and proceeds to assume that it's a particular species of tree. In other words, you've inferred too much from too little information.

For your edification:

1. I am a member of management. So it would indeed be a schizophrenic existence for me to complain about myself vis-a-vis the job I'm doing. I just make it a point not to drink the company Kool-Aide unless I'm certain I can live with myself for doing so.

2. On average, I put in 10 hours a day, not because of my sense of self importance, but because I make it point to stay in contact with all the people on the three shifts we run. I see my job as a blocking back in football; give my people the ball, and they'll run with it so long as I'm in front removing he obstacles from their path.

3. I have also made it a point of letting my superiors know, that I will not accept a pay raise or bonus if it means that the people I'm responsible for are to be excluded.

In my 25-plus years in simulation, both as a tech and as a manager, I have been associated with scores of techs with varying degrees of talent. On the whole they take their job seriously. I can count on the fingers of one hand the number who like to bitch for no other reason than to bitch.

At the same time, I've been the witness to managers who within months of being assigned, have so poisoned the good will within a shop, and outside of it, that it defies explanation. And I'm not the only manager to make such a claim. Perhaps I the only one to say so publicly. So long as there is management and labor, there will exist a certain degree of tension between both groups. From my point of view, so long as there is respect and an honest dialogue between both groups, the tensions can be kept to a minimum. Start throwing your weight around, disrespecting people, refusing to explain your actions, simply because you're the boss, which somehow carries the implication that you're smarter than them, and the whole shop is on a downhill slide to Nowheresville.

To make the inference you made, based on so little in my post, stretches the process of reasoning to its breaking point. Perhaps that explains how you came by your monikor. :biggrin:

[Fast Eddie]

You are correct that I jumped to a conclusion. The elephant leg I ran into was the Guest login. To many people hide behind this login and criticize others. I too am in management, and in my limited experience, I would have to say you are fortunate not to have ran into the pot stirrers that I have over the years. As for my moniker, it has nothing to do with my decision-making. I tend to make well thought out decisions (During business hours), and hope to continue doing so until I have the vast experience you have in simulation. :cheesy:

[simtek]

Sure! Does anyone else have any shop they want to see added?

You've seen nothing until you've seen my place. 3x FFSs, 4x Techs :banghead: