The future of NWA: Buyout? Merge? Chapter-7?

[andy]

NWA seems to have dropped out of the news lately, but there's still plenty going on. Currently, the sim shop is operating under a 19% wage reduction imposed on by the bankruptcy judge. There's also a new proposal which would change that to a 11.5% pay cut, but employees would also lose 5 vacation days, a couple holidays, shift diff, and a few other items which would add up to about a 30+% decrease in overall wages (when you add in both wage & benefit cuts) and everything would remain pretty much frozen until 2012.

There's also talk of a low cost carrier spin-off to handle domestic routes.

Needless to say this whole proposal is getting mixed reviews from the various employee groups. The pilot union is still in negotiations and is not part of the above proposal, and they have already gone forward with starting a strike vote.

This all could mean several things: Liquidation, merger, buyout, or employee farm-out. So I was wondering if anyone has heard any chatter about Northwest Airlines around their shops? Such as: Are there any large companies that are looking for a group of techs in the Minneapolis area? Or if anyone has heard of any of the other airlines gearing up for routes in case NWA shuts down, or for a possible merger? There's talk that CAL or American Airlines may be the candidates if this is was the case.

This could be happening very soon. The pilots deadline is I believe Feb 17th. The flight attendant negotiations sound ugly... at least from what is posted on their website.

Please keep your ears open for any rumors... you know how we love those rumors around here!

[dalsimtech]

What's the latest word?

[woodchopper]

Ballots are to be counted after last station votes March 3.

[andy]

Rumor has it that another big reorg is coming up soon. That's no biggie for us... we see that sort of thing every couple of years. It's the non-union side who is rumored to be chopped this time.

We received a proposal that equaled around a 30ish percent paycut. This is on top of basically no raises until 2012. I say "basically" because there were actually a couple in there (2 or 3), and they were something like a whopping 1% increase. There also hasn't been any pay increases up here for the past several years.

So, as Woodchopper mentioned we all voted on the company's contract proposal and we also had a strike vote. There was a 100% simtech turnout for voting which was the best in the union. The results aren't due out for a couple of weeks but it's pretty easy to figure out the outcome. The pilots and flight attendants are also currently conducting strike votes.

If things don't improve fairly soon the company is going to see a lot of us leave. I'd guess that at least half the techs at the shop are actively looking and that number may actually be quite higher. This shop has always had a high turnover rate though. There's currently about 40 techs and since I've been there I've seen 50+ either quit, get laid off, moved on to other jobs/positions, and a small handful have retired or passed away. Though before the last reorg (a couple of years ago) things were really stable & the machines were running great.

Combine the facts that NWA's pay is the lowest in the airline industry, Minnesota has the 4th highest tax rate in the nation and is ranked the 43rd least affordable city (MSP is more expensive than Miami or Denver... See Center for Housing Policy's Top 50 Least Affordable Metropolitan Areas at http://www.nhc.org/index/News-PR-LeastAffordableCities-080905 (http://www.nhc.org/index/News-PR-LeastAffordableCities-080905)) and the only month it hasn't snowed was friggin' July (though Koochiching County still had 1.5" of snow on the ground on June 4, 1935) . It really doesn't make this place too attractive to move to.

On top of that NWA is in a nasty bankruptcy and has striking AMFA mechanics. I truly wonder how many techs would be willing to swallow all of that and come up here to work under those conditions? I tell ya...once the people start bailing, things will start spiraling downhill fast.

We really needed to win that powerball lottery!



-------
update 02/25

I need to correct a statement that I had made in an earlier posting here. I had stated there were 50+ sim techs that had moved on since I started (1988).

That number was a little off. We sat down at work and counted 69 people that have left the job position, and I know that we missed a few. This is only for the sim tech slots, and doesn't include software or hardware engineers or any managers.... only the techs. That averages out to one tech leaving every 3.1 months since 1988.\

Update 02/28
The count is up to 80 sim techs who have left from 1988 to 2005.

The 35+ management type people/positions were not included in that number.

I wonder how thiis stacks up against other sim shops? We have about 40 techs currently employed.

eek:

Legal Disclaimer: These numbers are just to show the turnaround of the shop so that it may be compared to other positions a potential employment candidate may be exploring and is not meant to reflect on the practices of the company. bla bla bla bla bla

[dalsimtech]

Have they been asking you guys to prepare cheat sheets for doing common tasks or detailed "help books" lately? How about teaching other people the art of simulator maintenance?

I guess I don't have to tell you, but don't do it. They might just invite those folks down the street to come over after they chase you guys out with the crappy offers. I don't like the idea of helping someone else take over my job, nor of making it easier for the company to go elsewhere. nono:

[andy]

Have they been asking you guys to prepare cheat sheets for doing common tasks or detailed "help books" lately? How about teaching other people the art of simulator maintenance?


Doh! - There's a tech who's been working on help manuals!

Actually, many of us have already taken the bulk of our toolboxes & notes home. One of the nice things about our machines is that many of them are unique.. revamped ancient monsters with non-linear configurations, Singer MST vintage satanic spawnchildren, GP4 & PHP 11-45 dinosaurs with scabbed in PCs. Brand new 330 units and others with some of the manuals in foreign languages. Out of the 20+ sims only 1/10th of them are close to being the same. But some people don't understand that learning the cockpit is the easy part of a flight sim... it's what's drives the machine that's a bitch to learn. Heck, any fool can learn to fly a plane.

They can bring in folks but I don't know if NWA can handle the training impact. My 25+ years experience sez no.

[dalsimtech]

This all brings up the next logical question: where would you like to go next? By this, I mean city/state and also what type of company. Would you like to stay within the industry? Are you from Minneapolis originally, or have you grown to like it enough to call it "home" and want to stay?

I have been in Atlanta for over 17 years now, and I still don't feel like it is "home". I'd personally love to be back in Texas. However, unlike a surprisingly high number of people I've talked to here, I don't necessarily want to change industries. I would do it, and because of the limitations of simulator sites and airline headquarter locations I am sure I'd probably have to. Most likely, if I ended up in Texas I'd go with what raised me: the petrochemical industry. Heck, they are making money hand over fist right now.

My wife, ten years my junior, grew up in River Falls, WI. I flew into MSP regularly when I was courting her (originally an Internet relationship). I like it up there, but it is unnaturally expensive for housing and she hates the cold. Even with her family up there in Wisconsin and the Twin Cities, she doesn't want to go back there. She is also with DAL, so we could take a double whammy if the big Chapter 7 ever happened. help:

[nastyb]

Nbeestoy told me that Boeing had their techs and engineers document procedures and processes for many months before they started their layoffs, so that the remainder of the people could at least get by doing their (techs) jobs.
Just tell them to document the start up procedures as del*.*
It didn't work for alot of them but it was worth the try. nono: :winkie:

[JarHead]

Nbeestoy told me that Boeing had their techs and engineers document procedures and processes for many months before they started their layoffs, so that the remainder of the people could at least get by doing their (techs) jobs.
Just tell them to document the start up procedures as del*.*
It didn't work for alot of them but it was worth the try. nono: :winkie:

SimTechs can instantly implement "del *.*" in more than 10 HEX, and a few mechanical (hardware), languages.
We have almost zero management left that can comprehend the meaning of this.
faintt:

[guest]

Andy be careful of assuming that you are non-replaceable.

I thought that once, I was wrong.

They will either find someone that can do your function, or drop the function all together (even if it is good for the company). OR they will come crawling back to you after they let you go (based on what I hear here, that sounds like it won't happen).

They won't keep you because "you" think that you are ir-replaceable.
I'm not bitching at you, or questioning your abilities.

Your setting yourself up for a fall if you think this way.

I would like see one union at one of these broken airlines to strike and effectively shutdown a company. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to see anyone loose their jobs, but I do want these judges to see that the wholesale slashing of pay as the solution to bankruptcy is not the only/best option.

[The Pirate]

yep got that "we need to document all our procedures" thing before. they even covered it up with "we need to get ISO 9000? certified and all maint. procedures need to be verified." so we told them that was what the PM files were for, made copies and handed it in." it kinda worked, everyone in the shop stayed, site manager changed, name at the top of my check changed, but the total stayed the same, but that was dod contracts and no union. i don't know if it will work ina union shop going on strike.
good luck, hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

[guest]

Wow. Thats an extremely high turnover, bankruptcy not withstanding.

I've definitely heard the poor management complaints, I tend to take them with a grain of salt (two sides to every story).

A turnover rate that is that high, must be mis-management. Many levels of management could be involved, but finger sure points at the lower levels.

You might want to take a cue from your former co-workers.

Best Wishes to all involved.

[andy]

You might want to take a cue from your former co-workers.


The number surprised us too... and I'm sure a lot of folks are now realizing this fact.

[reprob8]

I'm sure senior management will find a way of putting its own spin on that attrition rate:

A) Career progession: as bogus an explanaion as they come, since career progression usally involves working your up within the company.

B) Disgruntled workers: if true, it means they have a pretty shitty vetting process. On top of that, it would seem to be statistically suspect, since the odds of picking the wrong people over and over again, would be too high.

[andy]

Update:

The judge has extended the pilot talks until next week:

Representatives of the Air Line Pilots Association, International, the Professional Flight Attendants Association and Northwest Airlines Corporation having met with the Court and good faith negotiations having continued, by mutual agreement the 30-day period in 1113(d)(2) has been extended through Wednesday, March 1, 2006.

[guest]

This really sounds to me like the judge is concerned about forcing a contract on the pilots and FA's. The threat of a strike after an imposed contract might affect the judges ability to be promoted to a higher court.

Looks like an ugly situation no matter what happens.

[andy]

This really sounds to me like the judge is concerned about forcing a contract on the pilots and FA's. The threat of a strike after an imposed contract might affect the judges ability to be promoted to a higher court.

Looks like an ugly situation no matter what happens.

I just wish it would finish, no matter what the outcome. The waiting is what's bugging me. Perhaps I'm just in denial but I feel that I'd just rather see things finished so we can continue on with life. And I'm glad that other groups are up to bat first.

Besides, what's the worst case?

"I was looking for a job when I found this one." (to quote a wise man)

[reprob8]

Just came across this tonight...

With more than 90% of its members voting, NWA's pilots voted to authorize a strike against the company if NWA "imposes its...paycuts and work-rule changes." Of those voting, more than 92% voted in favor of a strike.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11611635/

[andy]

From the pfaa.com website:

PFAA (NWA Flight Attendant union) and Northwest Airlines management reached a tentative contract agreement shortly after 1030 Eastern Time today, halting for now the possibility that the NWA Flight Attendants current contract would be abrogated by the bankruptcy court.

Once the agreement has been fully ironed out, the Negotiations Team will submit it to the Executive Board and Base Representatives for an initial review, before it is sent to the membership for a ratification vote.

President Guy D. Meek said today: ?While this has been an especially difficult period for our airline, we would like to ensure our customers that our Flight Attendants remain up to our current challenges, and will continue to serve the thousands of daily travelers who put their safety and security in our hands with the highest esteem and regard.?

[andy]

From the Pilot group...



NEGOTIATIONS UPDATE (3/01/06)
At 6:00 p.m. EST, ALPA and Northwest management attorneys participated in a status conference call with Judge Allan Gropper. Judge Gropper will not be issuing a ruling tonight. ALPA does not know when Judge Gropper will issue a decision. The extension of the 30 day period for the Judge to issue a decision expires tonight. Under the law Northwest technically could implement its proposal pending decision by the Judge, but ALPA does not expect the company to do so absent advance notice. The Negotiating Committee continues to meet around the clock with NWA management. Progress is being made, but some important issues still remain unresolved. Negotiations during the next 24 hours will be very intense and we will communicate significant news as soon as possible.



There's talk about the company having the power to throw out the pilots' contracts at this point. Hopefully we'll know more within the next 24 hours.

[The Pirate]

the president of your arlines name is Guy D. Meek? oh man, i can see it now, in bootcamp, remember, last name first, first name last.....................

MEEK, GUY D. man no wonder he sucks, being called meek guy, probably got beat up a lot.

[andy]

Guy Meek is the dude in charge of PFAA, which is the Flight Attendant's union.

And I ain't touching that one!

scratchch

[2cold4me]

Guy Meek is the dude in charge of PFAA, which is the Flight Attendant's union.

And I ain't touching that one!

scratchch

Andy, He'd probaby be your friend if you did parp:

[andy]

Doh!