Pan Am Academy

[SimProfessor]

www.panamacademy.com/careers.asp

Miami Training Center
SIMULATOR TECHNICIAN (http://www.panamacademy.com/careers.asp?id=362)

Memphis Training Center
SENIOR SIMULATOR TECHNICAL SPECIALIST (http://www.panamacademy.com/careers.asp?id=327)

[Pioneer]

I would like to hear from Pan Am employee's on how they would rate the company. If they had a choice would they stay with Pan Am or move on? I've hear a lot of negative stories about Pan Am and I would like to hear it from the guys how work there not just rumors. Thanks.

[guest]

The pay is good but PanAm is very cheap. They don't care very much about their employees either. You'll be lucky to get a 2% raise every other year, if that. No bonuses or perks and expensive medical coverage.

The equipment is mostly antiquated. Spares are few and far between and shared between sites. When you do get a spare shipped in from another site, a lot of times it is U/S. Poorly managed and disorganized. You'll spend most of your time putting out fires.:hothead:

If you're OK with the above situation, you'll enjoy it here. There are some very good people here.:eek:

[Sir Simalot]

I would like to hear from Pan Am employee's on how they would rate the company. If they had a choice would they stay with Pan Am or move on? I've hear a lot of negative stories about Pan Am and I would like to hear it from the guys how work there not just rummors. Thanks.

I used to work for Pam Am and they are a good company to work for as long as nothing is down for any length of time. If a serious malfunction occurs in the equipment, they can get very nasty. This has been my experience in the past but that doesn't mean that they are that way now.

[Arktoydoc]

I don't know about Pan Am being cheap but I used to work for the Director Field Support Operations and he was one of the best bosses I've ever had.

[guest]

"I don't know about Pan Am being cheap but I used to work for the Director Field Support Operations and he was one of the best bosses I've ever had."

Arktoydoc:

If you mean EG then I totally agree. Great guy and boss as well.

[guest]

They are cheap cheap cheap.

Shifts are understaffed to the point of breaking OSHA safety regs since employees have to work by themselves, and they shortcut FAA regs left and right. That place is a disaster waiting to happen.

Use them only as a stepping stone to a better workplace.

[guest]

FYI, I am a current Panam employee and I do not recommend them at all. Just waiting for something better to come along and get the hell out of here.

[guest]

I used to work at an undisclosed sim shop (not Pan Am) where the conditions were like what people have posted here for Pan Am. These bad conditions were why I left. Can it really be that bad at Pan Am? What are the qualifications of you guys who are complaining so much? Are you just some loser with a chip on his shoulder? :sadwavey:

[jhm3]

Here let me explain this to you in a way you can understand. Some shops suck...There now do you understand? :box2:

[guest]

I have worked at Pan Am for a number of years.

If you're conscientious about doing your job they'll take care of you. They have no patience for people with no initiative that are just hanging out to collect a check.

Sure the spending could be a little more free, but that's the case any place you go these days. When crunch time comes and money needs to be spent for a good reason, it's always there. My guess is if there is a shop that's still operating the way they were before 9/11, they won't be for much longer.

At the very least, Pan Am is not operating under the cover of bankcruptcy court nor is it threatening to go there unlike some places I can think of.

[guest]

I Worked For Pan Am For About 6 Months Coming From A Big Simualtor Company. The First Two Weeks I Was There They Laid Off 3 Guys. One Guy Had Been There For 5yrs And It Happened So Fast One Day He Comes In And Gets Told That His Job Is Gone. Is That The Way Panam Takes Care Of Its People.

All The Shifts Where Undermaned There We No Spares And Forget About Buying Any New Spares. Panam Will Go Under It Is Just A Matter Of Time. The Shop I Was At Had 7 Sims My Last Month There Only 2 Of Them Were Doing Anything. Stay Away From Panam!!!!!!!!!

[guest]

Being the new guy, a union shop would have let you go first (seniority rules above all else). Instead we kept you around because you had potential and the other guys weren't working out. Would you have prefered being let go instead?

[guest]

I have worked at Pan Am for a number of years.

If you're conscientious about doing your job they'll take care of you. They have no patience for people with no initiative that are just hanging out to collect a check.

Sure the spending could be a little more free, but that's the case any place you go these days. When crunch time comes and money needs to be spent for a good reason, it's always there. My guess is if there is a shop that's still operating the way they were before 9/11, they won't be for much longer.

At the very least, Pan Am is not operating under the cover of bankcruptcy court nor is it threatening to go there unlike some places I can think of.

Spoken like a true member of Panam management!!! Get your head out of your ass, this place is a hole. You are just trying to kiss up to upper management to make yourself look good.

[guest]

Being the new guy, a union shop would have let you go first (seniority rules above all else). Instead we kept you around because you had potential and the other guys weren't working out. Would you have prefered being let go instead?

Spoken like another member of Panam management. This foolish policy gives management the ability to "lay off" anyone they choose at any time for no reason. I have seen several good hard working loyal techs just pushed out the door for budgetary reasons. There is absolutely no protection for the employee. A union would be great here, then they would have a bit of bargaining power instead of being abused.

Meanwhile the boneheadded management spends several hundred thousand dollars tearing down a DC10 simulator and crating it up, letting it sit in the parking lot for a while then re installing it in the same building!! Absolute foolishness. Penny wise and pound foolish when it comes to money.

[guest]

I don't see anyone holding guns to people's heads to get them to work at Pan Am. If things are so intolerable there, you're welcome to work somewhere else!

[guest]

Been workin at P.A. for a long time. Weather is great. No state income taxes. Once in a while a hurricane will scare everybody. Great bunch to work with and work for. Nobody's going to get rich in this field, so don't blame management for the low wages.
And last but not least, they haven't outsourced us to Bangalore. YET!!!
:box2:

[guest]

Why are there so many cry baby sim-techs out there. Many of the "sim-techs" I've met think they are the cat's meow and think they should get 40-50K per year (or at least a bunch more than what they make). When pressed to action, however, they are either completely lost or on the phone.
I fear that these may also be some of those that are moaning and complaining about management, shop conditions, etc...
Everyone who works on flight simulators are blessed. I don't think there is a better field out there where you can gain more experience on a variety of disciplines. All you have to do is open the books, study and stick with a problem then you will learn and gain experience. I've seen people give up on a problem after just a casual look. So the top tech solves the problem, again.
Maybe the tech couldn't concentrate cause he had to get back to the computer so he could bitch and moan on SimTech Online.
So, it shouldn't matter what shop you work at if they are paying you the salary you agreed. The management problems are just that, management problems.
Take the opportunity you have and make the most of it.
If the shop is that bad, fight it by legal means or pack your stuff and go.
Bitchin about it does no good. It's just a vent.
People here are bad-mouthing PanAm but I suspect that there are far worse places to work. Also the comments about OSHA and FAA are uncool. Let the feds take care of themselves and quit trying to cause damage to your fellow sim-tech.

I love working on sims and I take management with a grain of salt. Once you realize they are looking out for themselves and not you, you can get back to work.

People compalin that "We don't have enough spares, waahhh!" Perhaps fair enough, but how many spares are on the repair bench waiting for someone to fix them?

I can go on and on and on. People need to just get to work!

[guest]

I have worked in companies in a variety of industries: a drug store, a mortgage company, a bookstore, a university library, and an aerospace research company among others. I spent over four years in simulator maintenance at a nameless company, and I have never seen employee-management relations anywhere near as bad as what I saw in simulation. It seemed like everybody was just out to get everybody else. I saw people unjustifiably fired. There was also a constant revolving door of personnel which management did nothing to stop. Some of the best people in the business came through and left--what a waste of talent. What is going on? Labor-management relations are one of the reasons why commercial aviation has such a black eye with the general public. I eventually studied for a new career and moved on. I am now much happier.

[guest]

Why are there so many cry baby sim-techs out there. Many of the "sim-techs" I've met think they are the cat's meow and think they should get 40-50K per year (or at least a bunch more than what they make). When pressed to action, however, they are either completely lost or on the phone.
I fear that these may also be some of those that are moaning and complaining about management, shop conditions, etc...
Everyone who works on flight simulators are blessed. I don't think there is a better field out there where you can gain more experience on a variety of disciplines. All you have to do is open the books, study and stick with a problem then you will learn and gain experience. I've seen people give up on a problem after just a casual look. So the top tech solves the problem, again.
Maybe the tech couldn't concentrate cause he had to get back to the computer so he could bitch and moan on SimTech Online.
So, it shouldn't matter what shop you work at if they are paying you the salary you agreed. The management problems are just that, management problems.
Take the opportunity you have and make the most of it.
If the shop is that bad, fight it by legal means or pack your stuff and go.
Bitchin about it does no good. It's just a vent.
People here are bad-mouthing PanAm but I suspect that there are far worse places to work. Also the comments about OSHA and FAA are uncool. Let the feds take care of themselves and quit trying to cause damage to your fellow sim-tech.

I love working on sims and I take management with a grain of salt. Once you realize they are looking out for themselves and not you, you can get back to work.

People compalin that "We don't have enough spares, waahhh!" Perhaps fair enough, but how many spares are on the repair bench waiting for someone to fix them?

I can go on and on and on. People need to just get to work!

So we are in agreement on the 3 key problems at Panam:

(1) Poor Management
(2) Lack Of Spares
(3) Panam treats employees like cattle

FYI: I am a senior simulator technical specialist that works for Panam and I am writing this on my own time. I don't want to say any more as it may reveal my identity and then I'll be the next layoff!!

[guest]

AHHH!

I know who you are now...
You're Fired!!!!! (in a Donald Trump tone)

:box2:

[guest]

Why are there so many cry baby sim-techs out there. Many of the "sim-techs" I've met think they are the cat's meow and think they should get 40-50K per year (or at least a bunch more than what they make). When pressed to action, however, they are either completely lost or on the phone.
I fear that these may also be some of those that are moaning and complaining about management, shop conditions, etc...
Everyone who works on flight simulators are blessed. I don't think there is a better field out there where you can gain more experience on a variety of disciplines. All you have to do is open the books, study and stick with a problem then you will learn and gain experience. I've seen people give up on a problem after just a casual look. So the top tech solves the problem, again.
Maybe the tech couldn't concentrate cause he had to get back to the computer so he could bitch and moan on SimTech Online.
So, it shouldn't matter what shop you work at if they are paying you the salary you agreed. The management problems are just that, management problems.
Take the opportunity you have and make the most of it.
If the shop is that bad, fight it by legal means or pack your stuff and go.
Bitchin about it does no good. It's just a vent.
People here are bad-mouthing PanAm but I suspect that there are far worse places to work. Also the comments about OSHA and FAA are uncool. Let the feds take care of themselves and quit trying to cause damage to your fellow sim-tech.

I love working on sims and I take management with a grain of salt. Once you realize they are looking out for themselves and not you, you can get back to work.

People compalin that "We don't have enough spares, waahhh!" Perhaps fair enough, but how many spares are on the repair bench waiting for someone to fix them?

I can go on and on and on. People need to just get to work!


I too would take management with a grain of salt, if it wasn't for the fact that in the process of being out for themselves, management winds up playing hide-the-salami with the techs themselves. That's just one of of those non-sequitors which the poster ignores.

The Feds, OSHA and FAA, are regulatory agencies whose directives have to be followed, at the risk of greater sanctions in the future. For someone to say "let the Feds take care of themselves" is tantamount to whistling in the dark. If I keep quiet and play along, maybe they'll ignore and not hurt me.

I never would have thought there was such a thing as Stepford Tech...until now. Sorry, dude, ain't too many of us about to drink that Kool-Aid.

[guest]

You misunderstand. What I mean is that to make a comment about regs being broken, etc... in this public forum is doing your fellow sim-tech a great dis-service. When I mean fellow sim-tech, I mean in a global sense. You may hate PanAm, FSI, Alteon, etc... but you should be respecting the sim-techs there. If they are breaking rules in a blatant manner, the feds will notice and take care of it.

[Egyptian]

I would expect that PA will do poorly in the poll in another thread here

[JMac1207]

Originally Posted by guest
Why are there so many cry baby sim-techs out there. Many of the "sim-techs" I've met think they are the cat's meow and think they should get 40-50K per year (or at least a bunch more than what they make). When pressed to action, however, they are either completely lost or on the phone.


I do not know about everyone else, but I think we should be making between 40-50K per year. If you are not making this much and would like too, see my post under B Tech for Fort Rucker. Starting pay over 40K per year after probationary period with set annual raises.

My two cents on Pan Am. I used to work for them as well, but in the days before 9/11. I do agree that management could get really nasty when sims were down for more than 15 minutes. They also did have some older sims that were hard to keep up with and in the days before 9/11 they were flying them between 14-20 hours per days including weekends. And even though they had some old stuff they were in the process of buying several new RJ simulators from CAE. I enjoyed working with a majority of the people that were there at the time, it was the guy running the place at that time that was the problem. Talk about someone with a serious lack of people skills. I understand though that he is gone and his replacement is someone that is much better at the job.

Pam Am does have flaws that they need to work out if they plan to stay in business. They really do have some great talent working for them that I would like to have working with me. They need to pay more attention to there customer and less to the bottom line. Sometimes you have to spend money in this business to make money. :faintt:

[guest]

This is in response to JMAC1207. I know who you are. I as well worked for Pan Am at the same time and place that you did. Your comment on management could really get Nasty is based on a Sim Maintenance Manager that did not have good people Skills. He ranked a persons worth based on either Marital Status or Incompetence. I was Divorced, so he treated me Nasty. You were the latter, that's why you were treated Nasty.
As for the Sim Manager that replaced him, there are definitely better people skills with the new individual (whom I know you met at the Maxvue Course), but his knowledge does not compare to the Manager he replaced.
It's good that you enjoyed working with the Majority of People here at our Site, unfortunately the feeling was never mutual.

[guest]

So we are in agreement on the 3 key problems at Panam:

(1) Poor Management
(2) Lack Of Spares
(3) Panam treats employees like cattle

FYI: I am a senior simulator technical specialist that works for Panam and I am writing this on my own time. I don't want to say any more as it may reveal my identity and then I'll be the next layoff!!

Ahhhh Life is great in the cheap seats!!!:boohoo:

Take two tech's, side by side in the same shop with the same management, same spares, same shift. One is happy, one is not. It can be argued that one obviously doesn't understand the situation, but which one? Is it the unhappy one who looks for and finds fault with coworkers, management and the company, after all any excuse which would shift responsibility and blame away from themselves has to be a good thing,, right? Or, could it be that the happy one takes the initiative to continually learn new things, works with their fellow employees, understanding that everyone has their strength's and their weaknesses and tries to see the bigger picture within their shop and their company and makes things better, or just uses better drugs.

I think that everyone in this forum would agree that simulation has to be one of the best jobs you could have, and like everything else, it's what you make out of it, if you want it to be :horse: , then you get :horse:

and by the way, if you don't take care of the sim you are resposible for, you just may be the next one laid off.:)

[dirtydozen]

Holy Cow !!!

You should hear yourself WHINE. AMAZING

[guest]

Dirtydozen,

WHINING??? I've read your posts and you call THIS whining? I must need lessons from you, please enlighten me.

[markovol]

Hey guest it must be nice living in your perfect world. And the name "guest" so original it really took some imagination to use that. How about getting a name after a post like that. Anyone that is happy in our shop must be living in a dream world. Let's say you have the dream job and then one day you go to work and they start hitting you with a stick. It hurts but hey you really love your job. It continues to be that way for a year. Do you still have the dream job? Good luck trying to find 1 happy sim tech in our shop.

[guest]

Hey guest it must be nice living in your perfect world. And the name "guest" so original it really took some imagination to use that. How about getting a name after a post like that. Anyone that is happy in our shop must be living in a dream world. Let's say you have the dream job and then one day you go to work and they start hitting you with a stick. It hurts but hey you really love your job. It continues to be that way for a year. Do you still have the dream job? Good luck trying to find 1 happy sim tech in our shop.

Didn't one of the sim techs blow his brains out in the lobby @<hidden> KMSP?? Must be a real happy place to work.

[dirtydozen]

It was at PAN AM .
He was a friend of ours and someone's father.
Mind being a little more courteous ?

[6DOF]

..

[markovol]

Nice job professor. Kick any babies lately? Happened more than a year ago. He was working at Pan Am by himself. He had been going through some pretty bad stuff. Unfortunately he didn't get the help he needed.

[6DOF]

..

[andy]

Note from the dude with the biggest avatar:

You guys can argue or talk about pretty much anything you want on here. This board really gets interesting when people start ripping into each other. You all should know me by now... I really don't even get upset when I get threats of legal action (I believe the count is up to 5 because of this site - big whoop).

I will ask one thing here though - keep the "guy who committed suicide at PanAm" respectful. He was a friend of mine and I know most of the circumstances which led up to it. I also know his family and they are all very good people. There was a lot more than just the PanAm work environment involved with that one. I'm not saying that PanAm was or wasn't a factor... but that's one area that I would just request not be explored, or at least not made fun of. There was more than one sim shop involved in his death.

In a way perhaps it should be talked about, as it would bring out just how crappy employees are treated at other sites. But not in this topic's stance please. It was said by Guest and in a way it needed to be said, but out of respect do not go into any details.

With that said, please feel free to resume the fight.

[Anthony Ganner]

:sadwavey: Can you get in to America to take up the position,will they get you green card.

[guest]

Is it possible to know who the poor guy was at Pan Am MSP? I worked for them a couple years back - want to know if the guy was anyone I had known. Even initals would be good.

[V-man]

Andy, you said it best!!! Guest give it up already!!!!!!! :mad:

[joelplaice]

Well for the "Guest" who has much to say throughout this forum but finds it convenient to hide behind the "Guest" moniker. I found your remark about our friend in MSP who ended his life in the poorest of taste. To think that such a step was taken by someone over his happiness or lack of it in a Sim Shop is ludicrous.

Shame on you for bringing a personal tragedy into your debate. You ought to resign from the Sim Tech community and never be heard from again. It is great to see, and participate in, the debates and sharing of opinions on various shim shops on this forum, but the woes and triumphs of "Sim Shops" pale in comparison to all of our personal and family lives.

I knew the person involved in the tragedy in MSP as I know many who view this board did. I worked with him for many years and found him to always be legitimately concerned for the workplace and his fellow workers. Besides that I count hiim as a friend who I was honored to know and spend time with both on the job and off...not a great golfer, but few enjoyed the game as much as he did.

Would hope that most would remember him this way, not as a cheap shot one liner in some ignorant poster's comeback. Would hope, "Guest" that you would at least have the integrity and intelligence to understand that you owe this man's memory and the community an acknowledgement of your ingorance and a sincere apology.

[bluesman]

There was more than one Guest on this thread that I know of. I started the one as "Guest" about the cry baby sim techs. After reading Joel's posting I wanted to distinguish myself from the other insensitive Guest. The reason I have posted as Guest is that I throw a bone out there and let others hash it out. I'll make comments if someone misunderstands what I meant to say, but I tend to let it go on it's own.

[Sir Simalot]

I have read the threads listed and they are interesting. There are good people to work for and there are bad people to work for. No matter what company you are with, there is always going to be good with bad. Some companys are better than others. The one comment I want to make is this, if you have years of experience on simulators and think that you should not make at least 40 to 50k a year, then maybe you are no good at your job or just lazy. I tell you now, I worked hard to get where I am and no one can take that from me. I have never had a complaint of my work or the results of it. Yes, there are times I made mistakes as we all do, but I learn from my mistakes and try not to repeat them. I have met some real good people at pan am as well as some real bad people at pan am. I have worked with a lot of different people and learned many things. To the person who orginally wanted to know about working conditions at pan am, I would say that if it's where you want to be then go for it and figure out the rest later. Best of luck to you.

[Pansy Bedwetter]

Finally signed up for a User Name. Thanks to the nasty Guest, I can't post that way anymore in case someone would mistake me for that grump. :)

[phakeflyer]

Markovol

Now that I am registered, I'm ready to answer your challenge, first off, let me assure you that my world is not perfect, but it IS the world that I have to deal with and I will make the best out of it. I can bitch and moan that the world is changing and do nothing about it or I can realize that "my world" is only a part of the whole and adapt in my own way. To steal a quote "The only thing that is constant is change, and the only thing constant about change is change for the worst" (Thanks Craig) Kind of a pessimistic way of looking at things, but Hey, if the shoe fits, live with it!

What people on this thread need to realize is that Pan Am is not an airline shop, which is all accepted overhead and has the aircraft resources, nor is it a spin off of a simulator manufacturer which has both the engineering and the parts resources, it is also not a military shop with a cost plus contract. Pan Am is a business based on revenue and the amount of money that flies out of a simulator shop is incredible. The "theory" that you have to spend money to make money has it's limits, just ask any business that files for bankruptcy. With the whole aviation industry in the toilet what can you expect the company to do except cut costs where it can.

We both know that eventually, things will have to change. Either Pan Am will have to hire more people to support the customers that we do have, or they will have lose business to the point that another company can absorb what is left and make a go of whats left. How we ride the storm out is entirely up to the individual. One thing that I will say about Pan Am, it does give the managers the ability to take as much rope as they can to either hang themselves or make a hammock. There is a lot more flexibility if you keep to the code of doing what you can rather than doing only what you are told. I have found that if you make a decision to improve things on your own, whether it be for the sims or for the employee's good, Like giving your employees a day off for their birthday, while it may not have the blessing of higher up, it will be supported. (All part of that rope thing I mentioned before )

There are some very good people at Pan Am and where I won't say that we are all "happy sim tech's" I will say that our sim techs can make some pretty good times.

Off my soap box now, fire away!!!!

[markovol]

Nice name. I know at least 4 people at the Pam Am shop here in Minnesota and they are some of the best I have worked with. Oh that's right there are only 4 people over there. Never the less they are all good people and you do what you have to do. I may find myself working for Pan Am someday with things going they way they are. I like my job but I use to love it.

How about a new thread this one is getting too long

[guest]

Nice name. I know at least 4 people at the Pam Am shop here in Minnesota and they are some of the best I have worked with. Oh that's right there are only 4 people over there. Never the less they are all good people and you do what you have to do. I may find myself working for Pan Am someday with things going they way they are. I like my job but I use to love it.

How about a new thread this one is getting too long

4 techs for 4 simulators with 24/7 operation, just imagine it?? That's typical panam for you, working alone most of the time. Seems dangerous to me.:box2:

It could be worse, if it was aeroservice they'd have 2 techs for 24/7 operation with 4 simulators. They have 12 machines now with maybe 4 techs.:box2:

[reprob8]

It could be worse, if it was aeroservice they'd have 2 techs for 24/7 operation with 4 simulators. They have 12 machines now with maybe 4 techs.:box2:

I see where this could be going a few years down the road...

As more and more air carriers out source their training and sim maintenance (Air Tran and Jet Blue come to mind), and as we draw closer to having one internationally recognized standard for sim cerification, how long will it be before some enterprising bottom feeder realizes that he can set up a training center across the border in Cuidad Juarez or Tijuana, where they can pay their techs $9.00 an hour with no benefits. :scared:

[guest]

$9.00 per hour is damn good money in Mexico. I used to work at a shop in Miami. I made about $17.00 per hour when I left. I wouldn't mind working overseas if someone gave me a good offer that offered me a decent living on the local economy. My only misgiving would be that since the dollar is so high against the other currencies, I would lose most of my savings getting off the plane when I got back. Last I checked, there were 40 rupees to the dollar. If the dollar continues to fall, maybe the currencies will come to an equilibrium and we wouldn't have to worry about so many jobs going offshore.:cuss: :scared: :box2: :eek: :faintt:

[reprob8]

$9.00 per hour is damn good money in Mexico. I used to work at a shop in Miami. I made about $17.00 per hour when I left. I wouldn't mind working overseas if someone gave me a good offer that offered me a decent living on the local economy. My only misgiving would be that since the dollar is so high against the other currencies, I would lose most of my savings getting off the plane when I got back. Last I checked, there were 40 rupees to the dollar. If the dollar continues to fall, maybe the currencies will come to an equilibrium and we wouldn't have to worry about so many jobs going offshore.:cuss: :scared: :box2: :eek: :faintt:

I'm sure those losing their jobs here to someone overseas would take issue that attitude. Mammon trumps nationalism once more. Even if the dollar does fall to the point where there is some sort of so called equilibrium, what makes you think you're going to receive the worker protections we're used to receiving on this side of the border. Admittedly, they're rather weak and lacking in enforcement on this side of the border, but still better than what workers are subjected to on the other side. :hothead:

[Ttiny]

Some one has already started doing just that a few years ago, Does anyone remember GMI/AMI/ what ever MI, he started contracting techs to go south a few years ago, no benifits. A very low budget sim operation if you could even call it that, Contracted upgrades to Continental a few times in the 80's and 90's, files bankruptcy every so often,
Face it a sim tech/engineer who is not up on the times better be looking elsewhere to make a living. Board swappers annoymous is around the corner, It's cheaper, less over head, less technical skills and management can replace them quicker / easier with someone willing to work for less or they can just contract out the maintenance. Besides that most of the new equipment is easier / cheaper / faster to replace than to fix. (Skills - we don't need no stinking skills) That's sarcassim for some of you who don't hoblie, Automation and times is putting most of the true Simulation hardware/software engineers out the door. Move up or move out, Does any one hoblie Espano. I know bad/poor joke.

[reprob8]

Too bad we can't out source our business and corporate leaders. :sadwavey:

[bropro]

Funny you should mention out source corporate leaders. I was at a NWA stock clerk meeting where a VP/director who happen to have the same first name as mine. He mentioned all he does is chase money, meaning he is looking for ways to same NWA money. The main point he kept saying was that outsourcing saves them 30%, showed charts and graphs to back up his point. He also had a schedule with dates of all the outsourcing they were doing this year for NWA, example, engines are being out source in the middle of this year. NO, Sim training was not on the list yet, if you were wondering.

The whole theme behind his presentation is outsourcing is coming because it saves us 30% and if you don't like it, you can move on. He even said: "We are not in business to keep your job, we are in business to make money."

His final thing he said was soon, "my job will be outsourced."

[reprob8]

My country tis of f**king thee. :hothead:

Adam Smith is probably turning over in his grave.

[Egyptian]

I hope my 6 years, 5 weeks and 3 days to retirement are 6 years, 5 weeks and 4 days ahead if outsourcing. Do you know what a some Aisan sim techs will work for, about 1/4 if what an American wants. I don't know the answer to the problem, but as long as we are willing to buy cheap :cuss: junk from China, then American jobs are going to go over seas. Look for the made in the USA label (if you can find them anymore). The job you save might be your own. And, did you know I had to outsource myself just to get a job after 911.

Egyptian

[cooch56]

PAIFA used too be ok back under Pedro's rule. But once the Boston group took over and the bean counters started in, it wound down. That's why I left too move too greener grass.

[GABoots]

I worked for Pan AM for two years at the Memphis site. The lay off thing is correct. They just came in and called a meating one day and layed off some guys. Lucky for me I got wind of the layoffs in advance and bailed.