NWA & Delta reported to file for bankrupcy protection this week

[andy]

MarketWatch
Market Pulse: Northwest, Delta both to file for bankruptcy protection -NYT
Tuesday September 13, 1:26 pm ET
By Carolyn Pritchard

SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) -- Northwest Airlines Corp. and Delta Air Lines Inc. are both preparing to seek bankruptcy protection as soon as Wednesday, the New York Times reported on its Web site Tuesday, citing people close to both companies. Northwest and Delta are each finishing the details of their reorganization plans, including the financing that they will require to operate under bankruptcy protection, such people reportedly told the Times. That could cause delays, but the fundamental work of preparing each bankruptcy case is complete, the Times cited them as saying. If the filings are made on Wednesday, the first hearings would be on Thursday, according to the Times.

http://biz.yahoo.com/cbsmb/050913/cd6596ba04bc43a09c16b618d4173f58.html?.v=1

[andy]

There's a huge NWA stock selloff going on right now. A million shares are being traded about every 5 minutes since 1:00pm.Current price is $1.39 (was at $3.32 this morning). cryaby:

[andy]

NWA announcement maybe today. There's a press release due out at 4:00pm and there's already news trucks outside the HQ building.

[reprob8]

Both shoes just dropped:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9317550/

[chopper freak]

Here we go! The beginning of the end?

[andy]

Sounds like it. There's talk of some major layoffs coming down the pike. On both management and union side.

[guest]

Both shoes just dropped:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9317550/

Bye Bye NWA unions. Compliments of Jimmy Carter.

[andy]

Bye Bye NWA unions. Compliments of Jimmy Carter.

Wrong.

[guest]

Wrong.
.
Compliments of Jimmy Carter who signed the Chapter 11 changes into law. Look it up Democrap.

[reprob8]

A little rude to insult the webmaster, are we?

What Chapter 11 changes are those? I know he did sign the deregulation bill into law.

[andy]

Tell me which active airline who operating under chapter 11 has lost all of the unions?

NWA went into the toilet because Checchi and Wilson bought it out, sold off most of the assets and pocketed the money, along with the top execs.

I would suggest that you leave this board and find one that supports your pro-Hitler mentality regarding unions (read your history books). This site promotes all shops and companies... both union and non-union. I also allow political discussions on both sides but there is a limit on extremism, especially when it reaches evil levels. Keep it up and you will be banned.

[guest]

"pro-Hitler" Hitler was s socialist, just like most union people are. So, put yourself in to that gang buster, Communists and Nazis are one in the same -- unionism and collectivism is the same as Communism and Nazism. But, a union thug is not expected to know any better. Like the welfare recipients in New Orleans ? they expect someone else to spoon feed them like unions do for the jerks incapable of performing.

[reprob8]

"pro-Hitler" Hitler was s socialist, just like most union people are. So, put yourself in to that gang buster, Communists and Nazis are one in the same -- unionism and collectivism is the same as Communism and Nazism. But, a union thug is not expected to know any better. Like the welfare recipients in New Orleans ? they expect someone else to spoon feed them like unions do for the jerks incapable of performing.

There is a gulf of difference between nazism and communism. Just as there is a gulf of difference between intelligence and your own stupidity.

BTW, I know that when you say "welfare recepients" you really mean n_ggers.

As for jerks incapable of performing, what union do Mike Brown and George Bush belong to?

[freddybone]

Take it to the political forum. This person is obviously a idiot but reprob8 this anger thing is going to kill you. You know some people in life you just put on ignore. Dustymars is one,

[guest]

The conservatives deluded themselves in thinking they could use Hitler for their own interests. Within four months, Hitler had dramatically established his mastery over them and over all other political groups. He had destroyed the Communist and Socialist parties and the labor unions; forced the bourgeois and right wing parties to dissolve; emasculated or destroyed the paramilitary organizations; eliminated the federal structure of the republic; and on March 23, 1933, won from a decimated and intimidated Reichstag an enabling law that gave him dictatorial powers. His success came from a combination of pseudo-democratic mass demonstrations; terror by the SA and the Nazi-controlled police, which accelerated after the Reichstag fire in February; and a seemingly conservative program that kept the conservatives quiescent.



Ban the psycho!asshole:
gtfo:
banned:

[Doctor Clutch]

Andy,
This GUEST of yours is insulting and spews unsubstantiated Bullsh*t as though it were fact. All under the chickenshit guise of GUEST. Having made no meaningful contribution to the topics of discussion, I suggest you go ahead with your warning and ban this A$$hole.

[reprob8]

Take it to the political forum. This person is obviously a idiot but reprob8 this anger thing is going to kill you. You know some people in life you just put on ignore. Dustymars is one,

Freddybone:

You are right, and I stand corrected. Some people just aren't worth the time or trouble. Thanks.

I'd rather be killed by my own anger than by someone else's hand. Besides, I'm insured. :biggrin:

[freddybone]

Van is that you logging on under guest? I know this maybe wrong of me but Hitler "banned people" and burned books. There are lots of assholes in the world this guy is one. The guest log on was created for assholes and yellow belly's and this person is both. To all at NWA chins up we know the truth !
Also Andy increase you font I am getting old and that shit is hard to read

[reprob8]

I agree Freddy.

It was also created for those that may fear reprisals from management. But every now and then a cock roach will sneak in. We just have to deal with it. Guess it's a free speech thing.

[reprob8]

I think instead of guest logon it should be CHICKENSHIT !!!!
Dustymars/guest/chickenshit you must have sucked on your bastard mothers tits too long when you were a teenager. Go piss up a rope. Hope you get to see all these posts because it will be your last.
Don't choke on your blood pressure pills you tight ass little fuck.
See Dusty we can all be angry. Don't you want a hug now?
See you later Dickweed !!!!! cheeky4:
Andy feel free to delete this post if it's a little overboard.

I ain't too crazy about Dustymars. Personally, I think the guy is beyond angry, and is just plain full of hate. However, he has used his name in all his posts, at least to my knowledge. It's kind of a reach that absent any proof we go around accusing Dustymars as being the one behind the recent Guest posts.

I still think a Guest post serves a purpose since it does protect an individual from reprisals, from management, or otherwise. Like I said earlier, the down side is that now and then you'll have a cock roach pushing the envelope.

[dirtydozen]

No !! We have proof.

[reprob8]

I won't ask for your sources, and I haven't been privy to them. Just urging a little caution.

[dirtydozen]

Guest logon is weak.
Did you vote on the " identify your logon poll" ? Well that poll has been voted on for months and it looks like your logon on will be keep secret forever. Fine by me however, I vote to be identified.
It is an interesting poll.
I standby my webmaster ANDY beerchug: it's his site and we should respect the easy rules he has.
Your identity is safe unless you cross the well defined line of respect that has been clearly laid down.

[noodles]

Dustymars:
What a freaking hypocrite you are! You have some nerve calling someone else a coward for posting as ?guest? in another thread, yet you post as ?guest? when you want to take pot shots at Andy. You are vile and hateful. And judging from your ?guest? posts in this thread, you are also a bigot.

Enjoy the remainder of your retirement driving around Lake Flaccid in the magic 42mpg Saturn. Speaking of which, the EPA ratings for that car are lower than what you claim. Who were you trying to bullshit?

[noodles]

Dustymars = ?Guest? in this thread because of the repeated reference to ?Union Thugs?. Dustymars is the only member that I am aware of that has used that term.

Guilty as charged!! Get a rope!!

[dirtydozen]

In a odd way , Dusty does give us good example of how we should all
stand together.
Oh, does anyone think Dusted tries to Teabag himself ?
Looks like my root canal meds are taking over. BL out.

[andy]

You are all correct... the guest posts were indeed the user Dustymars. As the admin, every post records the user's IP address and stores it in a database. I can see this next to every post and determine who it comes from. As most of you know, no one usually ever sees this information but me, and I will erase the entire board before ever revealing it to any outside source.

This is a sad day on simtechonline and it is sad that after 5 years of hosting this site, this is the first time that I have ever had to ban a user.

cr34211:

Anyway, enough of that. Let's get back to the important issue at hand.

There were 2 major rumors floating around the management bowl today at work. The first one concerned a merger of NWA and Delta... sometime in the next 12-18 months.

The second one was that all of the other major airlines will be filing chapter 11 protection in the coming weeks. screwy:

[noodles]

Hmm? The issue at hand? At the moment I?m trying to determine if this ?self teabagging? that Dirtydozen mentioned is actually possible. If I?m not at work tomorrow, it means I was either successful or am hospitalized with a twisted back.

[dirtydozen]

Dude all you have to do is lay back and let your big sack roll back.... However please use caution ... with TEABAGS that big, choking is a high risk .
DAL & NWA merger ? I have heard this in the past few weeks. Neither company has many of the same a/c.
DAL controls a large portion of the east US, NWA controls big Asian/Midwest US routes.
I can not figure out what they will do.
As Dave G. once stated and it seems to be repeating itself, " you will not even recognise this place".
I heard NWA wants to hand over 13 planes that they have leases on with potential for a 102 more...parked ... sold..etc...

[reprob8]

Guest logon is weak.
Did you vote on the " identify your logon poll" ? Well that poll has been voted on for months and it looks like your logon on will be keep secret forever. Fine by me however, I vote to be identified.
It is an interesting poll.
I standby my webmaster ANDY beerchug: it's his site and we should respect the easy rules he has.
Your identity is safe unless you cross the well defined line of respect that has been clearly laid down.


That poll was on the NWA site. And I did vote, and did ID myself.

However, with some mangement types out there itching to "make an example" out of those who dare to speak, the guest logon is the best protection available to members who have something to say without that fear.

[dirtydozen]

Fear is weakness.

[reprob8]

Discretion is the better part of valor. biggrin:

[andy]

Hmmm.....


Delta and Northwest merger rumors just mentioned on CNN!

[MAllen]

I find the need (to avoid reprisal) to use the quest login to be unfortunate at best and cowardly (as seen here) at it?s worst. I for one will always identify myself. If I have something to say, I will say it openly and with my name attached. I have stated that I don?t like unions, and don?t see what they?re connection to filing for bankruptcy protection is, other then trying brake the contracts. Again only the union member (worker) losses, the company execs carry on as do the union bosses. So why now, well this seem to be what most think.

From a Q&A report by Christopher Boyd cboyd@<hidden> sentinel.com

?A number of factors played a role, including the high cost of fuel and labor. Both also have lots of long-term debt hanging over their heads, including underfunded pension plans. Another consideration: On Oct. 17, the bankruptcy laws become more restrictive and make it harder for companies to cancel their debts. The new bankruptcy laws also will make it harder to pay bonuses to managers to keep them at the company, and will generally force companies to either exit bankruptcy or liquidate faster.?


That seems to sum it up.

[freddybone]

Talk about cutures clashing Delta 95% non union and NWA and the fleets do not line up hard to believe.

[dirtydozen]

Yes DAL/NWA do seem to be two completely different beasts. There is one common thread between them.... mismanagement. Trying to take a legacy carrier and make it into a Jet blue/SW is not possible unless you gut the company.

[techstorage]

I say bring on the judge!
Now NWA and Delta are on the same playing field as the other majors, when will AA show up to play?

[reprob8]

In a joint annoucement today, the boards of Northwest Airlines and Delta Airlines announced a proposed merger between both bankrupt carriers.

The new carrier will be known as NOrthwest-DElta Air Lines, with its named shortened to NO-DEAL Air.

[freddybone]

I say bring on the judge!
Now NWA and Delta are on the same playing field as the other majors, when will AA show up to play?

Good luck ,kiss your defined pension good bye, say auf wiedersehen to your shift pay, bid adieu to half your holidays, Say adios to your skill pay, Say arrivederci to 10% of your base pay, the list is not pretty

[Knucklehead]

To all affected by the MWA and Delta filings, I'm sorry. Those of us who have spent our entire careers around military contracting have only had to worry every "x" years and then generally if we picked a long life airframe only about who the next bodyshop taking over was. Due to the SCA, pay usually stayed relatively the same, just had to shuffle 401K's and take what ever benifit hit the next guy brought. Again I'm sorry for any affected fellow simtechs.

On another note, Andy, you said it was a sad day for the site because a member had to be banned. I have to disagree to that, I think it shows the system is working the way it should. As the host you set the rules early and made them pretty simple. I think you give a lot of latitude and 99.9% of those who post know where the fence is. Sometimes we need to see the fence crossed and consequences levied to let us know things are how they should be.

Again, to all on the comercial side, all the best...

[andy]

Thanks Knucklehead... that's a good way to look at the issue.

Is anyone on here from Delta??? I was wondering how the mood is down there?

[Luke]

I wonder if this is just a ploy from a major corporation to take advantage of the system, gain a larger chunk of the competion at a very cheap price, providing the merger rumor is true. Delta is still licking it's wounds from selling DC-9's to AirTran. Too bad the upper management and stockholders thought it more important to take care of the CEO,CFO's and any other "O"'s under the ridiculous golden parachute most CE's enjoy.

[redwolf]

The mood here cuss: in Hotlanta is not good, in my opinion. So many emotions at the same time: disappointment, anger, despair, too many to list. I think reality is setting in and we'll find out in short order how many will be laid off. Surely, there are paycuts coming, not to mention more benefits cut too. That goes for the (un)lucky gents who will remain.

I would like to address the previous posts concerning the "mismatch" of NWA and DAL. (Disclaimer: I'm a meager simtech with no inside connection, insight, blah, blah, blah.) A few of us here believe that the international parts of each will mate together well. NWA has Asia and DAL has Europe. International is an area they can still exploit. We're pretty sure that DAL wants to shrink domestic/compete less with the LCCs. If they can find a way to pare both companies down it could make it a super ocean crosser. Just a thought.

[andy]

Yea, one of our bosses actually admitted that NWA was the victim of corporate raiders. NWA was fat with assets when Chechhi & Wilson came in and sold off (and then leased back) all the aircraft that was paid off & owned by the company, along with properties etc.

So what's the talk around there then regarding domestic routes? NWA and Delta doesn't share a lot of the same aircraft types, so combining them would be tough. (Disclaimer here too: I'm just some schmo with a screwdriver and also have no inside info, insight, foresight, common sense, bla bla bla.) Do you think the two companies are looking at combining just the overseas portion, and all of the domestic routes would then be split to one or more smaller carriers. We keep hearing the buzz phrase "spin off to a low cost carrier" of which they have labeled NewCo (for lack of a real name).

Who knows what would happen to our sim shops... will they be chopped up as well, contracted out, combined, or operate the same?

So far, nothing here in the shop has changed... but most of the rumors are ugly. The one group of people who are really screwed are the AMFA folks (mechanics, cleaners, Plant Maintenance). Their contract is gone. The company is hiring replacement workers and when all that is done they will be placed on the inactive list & would only be recalled if there was an opening.

[freddybone]

Agreed it would make a great airline just talking of culture clashes, non union vs. union

[Egyptian]

Want my opinion? I think NWA and Delta will merge. I feel so sure of it, I bought a couple of thousand shares of NWA at 85 cents each on Friday hoping to make a little off of it when both airlines come out of the courts. And I do not think the government is going to let either one of them go down the tubes, though I think no one will recoginize them after this is all over

Egyptian

[alstrac]

NWA & Delta stock will most likely be wiped out when it emerges from bankruptcy and they will issue new stock.

The only people buying are doing so to cover their short positions.

[andy]

NWA & Delta stock will most likely be wiped out when it emerges from bankruptcy and they will issue new stock.

The only people buying are doing so to cover their short positions.

Alstrac has a strong point. Look what is happening with UAL's stock once they emerge from bankrupcy:

(from MSN Money http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/ticker/article.asp?Symbol=US:UALAQ&Feed=PR&Date=20050907&ID=5092811)

Under the POR as proposed, unsecured creditors generally will receive distributions of new UAL common stock to settle their claims. Current holders of UAL common stock, preferred stock and the 13.25% Trust Originated Preferred Securities would receive no distribution, and those securities would be canceled upon the effective date of the Plan. United has made it clear for some time that the company expected its common stock to be without value under any plan of reorganization the company might propose.

[andy]

To the Delta techs:

Is there talk down there regarding the merger and what would happen to your shop? I ask because we are wondering up here at NWA.

Can someone email me how accurate the latest CAT Simulator Census is regarding the shop? Some of us are wondering how our two shops would be affected if there was a merger. Do you guys have a lot of empty sim bays since you got rid of the DC9 & the MD11 sims?

Also... I can set up a private forum area just for Delta sim techs if you folks want me to. We use the NWA private forum area to keep up on the latest news, to relay messages to workers that we don't normally see, and to keep in touch with techs who either have quit, retired, or have been laid off.

I don't know if Delta has a close-knit shop but NWA does & the private forum works quite well for keeping in touch and for updating information for all those involved (without airing any dirty laundry to the general public).

[Egyptian]

There is a disconnect between my fingers and my brain huh: , I bought Delta. Was thinking one thing and typed another. And I don't intend to keep it for the long haul, I made a fair chunk of change on Worldcom when it went into bankruptcy just trading around at the bottom. Couple of thousand shares that change 25 cents can make you money if you trade at the right time and are willing to get in and get out multiple times. It is not for the faint at heart, but it can be rewarding to those that hit the trades just right.

Egyptian

[phakeflyer]

Egyptian,

found a news posting a little closer to your situation.


Who's buying Delta and Northwest?

By Mark Hulbert, MarketWatchLast Update: 12:11 AM ET Sept. 16, 2005

ANNANDALE, Va. (MarketWatch) -- I know that the time to buy is when the blood is running in the streets, to quote Nathan Rothschild's famous phrase.But does that actually mean you should be buying the stock of (DAL: news, chart, profile) Delta Airlines and (NWAC: news, chart, profile) Northwest Airlines, both of which filed for bankruptcy on Wednesday?Evidently some investors think it does.In Thursday's trading alone, for example, more than 53 million shares of Delta's stock were traded at prices ranging from 75 cents to $1. Furthermore, nearly 133 million shares of Northwest's stock traded between 82 cents and $1.10.But what, exactly, were investors betting on when they paid this much for these companies' stock? Under what plausible scenario will their purchases on Thursday turn out to be profitable?To help find out, I turned to the investment newsletter industry, specifically the 188 newsletters tracked by the Hulbert Financial Digest. Whatever else you might be inclined to say about newsletter editors, being risk averse is not one of them.In fact, fellow columnist Peter Brimelow has described newsletters as the guerillas of the investment arena, willing to take more risks and walk across investment minefields where no one else is willing to tread.So, it seemed to me, if any group of advisers were to include some brave souls willing to bet on Delta or Northwest, the newsletter industry would be it.Yet not one of the 188 newsletters the HFD tracks is recommending either airline.In fact, the consensus among those newsletters that did comment about these airlines on Thursday is that the stocks of both companies' are worthless.Morningstar, for example, wrote Thursday morning that "virtually any outcome [of the bankruptcy proceedings] should result in the wiping out of shareholders, as all common stock will almost certainly be canceled through liquidation, restructuring, or acquisition."Value Line concurs. In fact, the publishers of the Value Line Investment Survey announced Thursday that, because Delta's and Northwest's stock are now essentially worthless, henceforth they will not issue any more reports on either company.Far from buying the stocks of these airlines, therefore, if you believe Morningstar and Value Line you should be trying to sell these two companies' stock short. (To be sure, you probably won't be able to find shares to borrow to do so, and special rules apply when trying to short stocks that are this cheap.)For the record, I should point out that newsletters are not completely shunning the airline industry. In fact, currently there are four airline companies that are recommended for purchase by at least two of the newsletters the HFD tracks. They are:Ticker Company # newsletters recommending
SKYW Skywest 3
FLYI Flyi 2
JBLU JetBlue 2
LUV Southwest 2

Good luck with your investing.

[Egyptian]

I read the same thing about Worldcom a couple of years ago and managed to make about 85% on my money by bottom fishing. I am going to try the same thing again,, Maybe I will get lucky and maybe I won't, but I will have had the joy of trying.

Egyptian

[andy]

From an AP newswire...
(full story at http://money.excite.com/jsp/nw/nwdt_ge.jsp?news_id=cmt-265w9076&feed=cmt&date=20050922)




Delta Air Lines Inc. said Thursday it will cut up to 9,000 jobs, or 17 percent of the work force at its flagship service, and reduce pay and make changes to its route network to focus more on international flying as it moves swiftly to restructure its costs in bankruptcy.

[VisuAL]

We received some of the details yesterday. Sim Techs are losing another 9% pay, shift differential, and longevity pay. Losing one holiday, annual vacation capped at 4 weeks (those with 5 weeks now will be grandfathered in). Pension will be frozen Dec 31st. Plus more changes in healthcare, LTD, STD, etc...,. Personel reductions to be determined at a later date. Fleet changes will be a major factor here.
I'm not whining, just reporting the news.

[andy]

Thanks for the updates... please keep us informed of any changes.

We're still in limbo at NWA as to what we'll get handed to us, but I'm sure the bad news isn't too far in our futures either.

[andy]

We received some of the details yesterday. Sim Techs are losing another 9% pay, shift differential, and longevity pay. Losing one holiday, annual vacation capped at 4 weeks (those with 5 weeks now will be grandfathered in). Pension will be frozen Dec 31st. Plus more changes in healthcare, LTD, STD, etc...,. Personel reductions to be determined at a later date. Fleet changes will be a major factor here.
I'm not whining, just reporting the news.

Is this on top of the previous cut in pay and bennies that you took earlier this year???

If so, can you spell out what all you have lost so far? Thanks.

[andy]

Mesaba Airlines has also filed this week, citing NWA as the cause for their reason.

[The Pirate]

if "iron range airlines" fails, who will the geese race with from CWA to MSP??

my experience with masaba reminds me of that ron white guy in the blue collar tour, "we were fly at half the speed of smell!!! I looked up at the pilot and he was waiving geese to come around!!"
actually, they weren't bad, and now when i fly out of MSP, i'll have to get a ride from wausau! oh well, another one bites the dust.

[guest]

I heard a rumor from a Delta Reservation agent of a DAL-NWA-CAL merger.

Of course Res people love rumors.

So now instead of 3 failed airlines, we can have one huge failing airline.

Can you say food stamps?