The Labor Union Holocaust Museum.

[dustymars]

Finally, after decades of union thug rule over the non-productive clots have driven the major heavy industries out of the country and the airlines are going down the tubes, unionism seems to be close to the end. Only a few percentage of private industries have unions and most other union power has gone to government membership ? a real problematic situation since they can?t strike. Slowdowns would be a joke in government since it moves so slow in the first place, the union would double their output by backing up. Guess it?s time for the lefties to use up all their cache of bottled water and granola you had stocked up on for Y2K and reply with more typical liberal lies.

Think there will be room in Washington, DC for another museum?

[reprob8]

Oh, you mean these union thugs:

http://www.kued.org/productions/fire/photos_stories/massacre.html

http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/45b/030.html

http://almostangels.org/ludlow/page2.html

[andy]

Gee... is Dustymars actually one of those airline CEOs who has been graced with a 30-40% annual pay increase over the past couple of years?

Unions would not be needed if companies treated their employees fairly. When executives enjoy double-digit pay increases, and obscene benefits, all while they slash worker benefits then there is no alternative.

During our last rounds of pay cuts, our CEO received a $750,000.00 bonus because he got the workers to take pay concessions... do you really think this is right?

The list of countries that forbids independent unions is not a pretty one (China, Iraq, Nazi Germany (http://www.fsmitha.com/h2/ch16.htm), etc.) ... I for one do not wish America to be added to that list. refuse:

[dustymars]

The dinosaur-dodo unions from the AFL-CIO mold are heading for
extinction. Like the Democrat/Marxist Party.

[andy]

So... do you believe that all labor unions should be abolished, and all powers to strike/lockout made illegal?

Do you believe that the "Democrat/Marxist Party" should be eliminated as well?

(I need to know what I am debating against here)

[reprob8]

If you believe the Democratic Party is marxist, then you're more into that Colombian stuff than W was in his younger days.

[Don]

He is right about one thing though.

Unions and its membership are gutless turds.

[guest]

The Machinists Union at Boeing are on strike. Boeing is the most significant
resource for good jobs in the United States that mostly provide solid
exports and thus great act in balancing the trade deficit. When over 18,000
workers are idled, the trickle down effect will be devastating because all
these workers do is to assemble pieces that have been made in almost every
machine shop across the nation. This will idle over 180,000 additional
machinists who are innocently non-union people for the most part and lacking
the support of a union to help pay the bills while not working. Since it is
a well proven fact that every manufacturing job supports five non
manufacturing jobs.... (One manufacturing hour's output is billed at an
average $120.00, so at $20.00 hour rates this is six people)
the effect is bound to be cataclysmic in loss of revenue across the nation.


Boeing has said they will not recover from this strike and I believe them.
The French will mobilize Airbus to the nth degree to steal Boeings customers
and have the Brits and other European nations behind them so there will be
no shortages of parts for Airbus.


Thus in one fell swoop our great labor union mentality, avarice and
self-indulgence is about to put us into bankruptcy. They have done it to
almost 80% of all manufacturing jobs already by sending them to Mexico and
China. Now they are giving the EU the golden eggs and killing the goose
itself that used to live and thrive in this nation.
May all union supporters rot in hell.

[reprob8]

The Machinists Union at Boeing are on strike. Boeing is the most significant
resource for good jobs in the United States that mostly provide solid
exports and thus great act in balancing the trade deficit. When over 18,000
workers are idled, the trickle down effect will be devastating because all
these workers do is to assemble pieces that have been made in almost every
machine shop across the nation. This will idle over 180,000 additional
machinists who are innocently non-union people for the most part and lacking
the support of a union to help pay the bills while not working. Since it is
a well proven fact that every manufacturing job supports five non
manufacturing jobs.... (One manufacturing hour's output is billed at an
average $120.00, so at $20.00 hour rates this is six people)
the effect is bound to be cataclysmic in loss of revenue across the nation.


Boeing has said they will not recover from this strike and I believe them.
The French will mobilize Airbus to the nth degree to steal Boeings customers
and have the Brits and other European nations behind them so there will be
no shortages of parts for Airbus.


Thus in one fell swoop our great labor union mentality, avarice and
self-indulgence is about to put us into bankruptcy. They have done it to
almost 80% of all manufacturing jobs already by sending them to Mexico and
China. Now they are giving the EU the golden eggs and killing the goose
itself that used to live and thrive in this nation.
May all union supporters rot in hell.


Just the same, I'll take my chances with so-called union thugs, than put my faith in the likes of a Ken Lay, Larry Fastow, Bernie Ebbers, Jack Welch, John Rigas & sons, etc.

You fail to mention the self-inflicted wounds that Boeing took. It lost a missile deal because of ethical lapses in the use of a competitor's proprietary information. You forget the sweetheart tanker deal it tried to swing for itself under less than ethical circumstances. You forget that Phil Condit, and his successor Harry Stonecipher both resigned under an ethical cloud. You can not blame that on the unions.

[freddybone]

reprob8 you throw around some names of truely evil men but just a quick read of the IBT leadership since its roots you find very few who arent just as evil, most spending time in the federal vacation facilities. I believe in the unions very strongly but those who live in glass houses should not throw stones. You can do a quick union corruption search and find pages of union officials under indictment , serving time or who have served time.

[reprob8]

Freddy:

No boubt adout it. Who can deny that James Hoffa Snr. is literally the cornerstone of the Teamsters Union. As I've also mentioned before, the current union leadership in this country needs to be more responsive and militant regarding the needs of those it represents and the American worker in general. The IBT went through its own reforms in response to a rank and file movement that got sick and tired of the corruption of its leaders. If the rank and file remains docile, and only participates when it cmes time to ratify a contract, if that much, its leaders will be corrupt and indolent. But at least the avenue is there to be exercised.

Be that as it may, you cannot compare that to the economic devastation that one CEO can cause to a company, its shareholders, employees, and the communities which depend upon it. This is not a recent phenomenon, although the individuals I've cited are. You can go back to Charles Keating of Lincoln Savings and Loan and J. Wiliam Oldenberg fifteen years ago and twenty years ago, or even further if you'd like. You cannot compare the damage done via union corruption to damage done to the American worker since the industrial revolution. I cited the Ludlow Massacre in an earlier post, but that's just one example. There are others such as the Haymarket Riot, or what happened at the Triangle Shirtwaist Company. Don't think for a minute that it's all in the past. Some of that crap still goes on to this day, here and abroad.

[freddybone]

I believe getting in bed with organized crime is just as bad sorry. Turning retirement funds over to the Mafia! Go through the list of indictments the unions making sweetheart deals with the employers for kickbacks, I think I can compare the two. Come on dont justify this how many lives has organized crime destroyed?
That said, Steenland and the boys ought to take a all expense paid federal vacation too. To collect millions while going into Bankruptcy should be a crime and we the rank and file should get militant with Congress to make it so!

[reprob8]

Not justifying. Just making a comparative analysis. Like I said, we need to get rid of the corruption in union leadership. Not unlike storing foodstuffs, it's only a matter of time befoe the cock roaches show up looking to grab their fill. A robust and involved movement is still the best protection. I wonder too if the corruption that we see is something specific to our society. Wonder if it happens in the western nations of Europe. But do you really think, the work place improvements (salaries, vacations, pension plans, etc.) that have occurred in the past 70-odd years would have happened in the absence of strong union movement.

Finally there's the free speech issue. If by saying something I happen to piss off my boss, or his boss, I can get canned, and then it's up to me to fight it out of my own pocket. At the least, a union levels that playing field.

[guest]

Reprob8, What makes you think the union will help you with your free speech issue?

[freddybone]

I agree I support the union and all that you said. All those things you said would not be there if not for the unions. Just saying we have our own houses to clean and being the Devil's advocate. And from what I have been told there is not a difference in Eastern Europe and Western Europe is bad just more experienced at hiding it. Trust me going from NWA to a non union shop has been difficult and fun seeing all the ass kissing going on to get a good eval as been fun. Looks like the TWU will be here soon

Cheers alc:

[reprob8]

Reprob8, What makes you think the union will help you with your free speech issue?

I've seen it happen before. One person gets too mouthy, or starts asking too many questions, and next time it comes time to trim the staff, guess who goes? Or they may simply decide to let you go without cause, or through something known as selective enforcement. If you want to challenge such a termination, you'll have to pay for it, literally. There aren't too many labor lawyers out there who take cases like that on contingency. And aren't too many people out there who can afford to pay those kind of retainers.

A union acts to make sure those arbitrary actions on the part of management do not go unchallenged.

[reprob8]

I agree I support the union and all that you said. All those things you said would not be there if not for the unions. Just saying we have our own houses to clean and being the Devil's advocate. And from what I have been told there is not a difference in Eastern Europe and Western Europe is bad just more experienced at hiding it. Trust me going from NWA to a non union shop has been difficult and fun seeing all the ass kissing going on to get a good eval as been fun. Looks like the TWU will be here soon

Cheers alc:

There is much room for improvement as far as union corruption, and unresponsiveness is concerned. But at least we have the power to do it, though it may now be dormant. Can we say the same about our captains of industry? Not when there's a revolving door between industry and those tasked with watching them.

[guest]

Chapter 11 means union contracts are not worth the paper the are written on. So NWA will be rid of unions. Now, union membership will be less and less as this process goes on. Airline management is almost as bad as union thuggery. If a worker is not good enough to do for herself or himself without some uneducated radical union thug, then they should find a lower stress job with lower expectations.

[reprob8]

Chapter 11 means union contracts are not worth the paper the are written on. So NWA will be rid of unions. Now, union membership will be less and less as this process goes on. Airline management is almost as bad as union thuggery. If a worker is not good enough to do for herself or himself without some uneducated radical union thug, then they should find a lower stress job with lower expectations.

I'll go along with that when an educated MBA thug can write his or her compensation package without the aid or representation from a high-powered business agent. After all, if after all that business education, he can't write his own contract, then he too needs to find a less stressful job of greater service to humanity. Defusing IEDs with his bare hands in Baghdad would be a good start. deal:

[freddybone]

If a worker is not good enough to do for herself or himself without some uneducated radical union thug, then they should find a lower stress job with lower expectations.

I have known people like most of my life, couldn't troubleshoot shit but could really suck the boss's dick. You know reprob8 he is the light holder for you that goes and tells the boss at shift change how he fixed the sim. He does make me laugh, stupid people usually do